SUMMARY

In an interview hosted by Matthew Woodward with copywriting expert Nabeel Azeez, they explore the highest-paying copywriting projects for 2025, focusing on strategic funnel and video copy amid AI disruptions in email writing.

STATEMENTS

Email copywriting has been largely disrupted by AI, making it the easiest content to replicate and reducing demand for simple email delivery.
Clients can generate unlimited copy with AI but need strategic expertise to turn it into revenue-generating material.
AI-produced copy by clients is often low-quality and ineffective, requiring human strategists to refine it.
Copywriters must shift from mere writing to providing strategy, input on marketing calendars, and promotional planning to secure high retainers like $5K or $10K monthly.
Business owners prioritize acquiring customers at lower costs over minor email optimizations, as acquisition expenses continue to rise.
Email copy can offer only a 10-30% lift in performance, insufficient compared to strategies that multiply returns significantly.
Opportunities remain in editing AI-generated email copy or managing email lists and CRMs like GHL, HubSpot, or Klaviyo for higher-level roles.
Backend email management can command $3K-$8K monthly as an upsell after optimizing funnels and conversions.
High-ticket consulting remains lucrative but competitive, appealing to many copywriters targeting coaches and course creators.
SaaS copywriting is ideal for efficiency, requiring less advanced skills while yielding high dollar-per-hour rates due to simpler marketing needs.
Industries with strong growth tailwinds, like peptides (e.g., GLP-1s like Ozempic), enable copywriters to earn more regardless of business model.
Booming sectors like telehealth and subscription supplements drive massive revenue, such as one e-commerce client scaling from $900 to $3 million monthly with email automations.
Copywriters should target emerging trends over outdated ones, like moving from Amazon FBA coaching to AI automation or current e-commerce waves.
SaaS emails often underperform in the market, allowing copywriters with baseline skills to improve them quickly and profitably.
Using copy systems and AI bots accelerates SaaS copy production, shifting the role to copy chief for reviewing and editing.
AI-generated copy has detectable "tells" like repetitive threes or short structures, so human editors must vary syntax to humanize it.
Local service businesses require minimal sophisticated copy, enabling easy $500/month retainers that scale to $20K-$30K via volume and upsells.
The copywriting market forms a bell curve: low-effort local gigs or high-skill fractional CMO roles pay best, while mid-level email/ad copy is messy and harder to measure.
Outdated advice from inactive coaches misleads new copywriters, emphasizing the need for real-time, in-the-trenches insights.
Performance-based deals are risky and outdated in 2025 due to outreach saturation; better to launch personal offers instead.
Onboarding fees filter serious clients in performance deals, protecting copywriters from unbalanced risk.
Building someone else's info business on performance undervalues the copywriter's effort compared to freelancing or personal ventures.
Most copywriters prefer the craft of writing over managing teams or acting as full CMOs.
Funnel copy, including pages, video sales letters (VSLs), and supporting assets, is the top high-paying project for advanced copywriters in info and DTC e-commerce.
In info businesses, funnels are the core asset, driving repeated revenue and justifying fees up to $150K for webinars.
DTC e-commerce demands constant video creatives due to ad platform expirations, creating high-volume copy opportunities.
Video copy, including scripts for ads, reels, YouTube, and micro-VSLs, is the highest-paying entry-level project, often commanding 5x email rates for similar word counts.
Businesses undervalue video copy by calling it "scripts," but it enhances sales through visuals, tone, and hooks unattainable in text.

IDEAS

AI democratizes copy volume but amplifies the need for human strategy, turning copywriters into indispensable revenue architects.
Growth industries like peptides create "tailwind" effects, where market hype sells products effortlessly, reducing copy skill barriers.
Outdated niches like Amazon FBA coaching faded with pandemic-driven e-commerce booms, highlighting the peril of static market advice.
SaaS marketing's complexity paradoxically allows mid-tier copywriters to thrive by simply elevating subpar existing emails.
Copy systems paired with AI not only speed up production but enable copywriters to oversee as "chiefs," scaling output without burnout.
Avoiding AI's stylistic pitfalls—like lists of threes or uniform sentence lengths—requires deliberate human creativity to mimic natural variation.
Local services offer "honest money" through low-skill, high-volume retainers, contrasting the glamour but matching earnings of big launches.
The bell curve of copywriting gigs favors poles: simplistic local work or elite strategic roles, sidelining commoditized mid-tier tasks.
Performance deals trap copywriters in building others' empires, misaligning with the freelance desire for creative autonomy.
Info businesses treat funnels as equity, perpetually rebuilding them for launches, creating endless high-stakes copy demand.
Video copy's 3D storytelling—visuals, tone, music—conveys empathy and hooks faster than text, revolutionizing ad differentiation.
Emerging AI video tools like 11 Labs lower production barriers, exploding demand for punchy scripts across platforms.
Undervalued video gigs, mislabeled as "ad scripts," allow newcomers to charge premium rates for concise, product-focused narratives.
Productized video services (script to post-production) can yield 60-80% margins by outsourcing execution while owning the sales funnel.
Copywriting power has shifted: businesses now beg for talent to survive competitive ad landscapes, not just scale.
Mindset blocks, not skill gaps, stall most aspiring copywriters, solvable through community immersion over solo hustling.
Free resources like $100M Offers abound, yet beginners overlook them, underscoring the value of guided starting points.
Global south copywriters can leapfrog language barriers using AI editors to polish accents into native fluency.
Launchpad communities democratize real-time industry intel, bridging the gap between outdated courses and current trenches.
Onboarding fees in deals assert copywriter leverage, filtering for committed clients in a saturated outreach era.
Fractional CMO roles demand elite skills but offer royalties, appealing to business-minded writers over pure crafters.
Micro-VSLs for B2B outbound sales customize pitches per role, turning one script into targeted revenue tools.
Inflation has redefined success: $20K/month is the new baseline, achievable via video bundles or agency upsells.
Agencies now pay premiums for copywriters, recognizing average copy as a survival threat in rising ad costs.
Training internal assistants beats hunting elite freelancers, as top copywriters command multi-six-figure autonomy.

INSIGHTS

Strategic oversight trumps volume writing in an AI era, positioning copywriters as profit consultants rather than word mills.
Tailwind industries amplify earnings by leveraging market momentum over individual prowess, a smarter path than skill-maximizing alone.
Market evolution demands constant adaptation; clinging to past booms like Amazon FBA dooms careers to irrelevance.
Efficiency in underserved niches like SaaS yields outsized returns through minimal elevation of baseline efforts.
Humanizing AI output requires counterintuitive techniques, like elongating sentences, to evade robotic patterns and build authenticity.
Polarized gig economics reward simplicity at lows and sophistication at highs, exposing mid-tier commoditization as a trap.
Performance models erode copywriter value by outsourcing upside, favoring personal ventures for true leverage.
Funnels embody info business value, making their optimization a perpetual, high-margin skill for sustained wealth.
Video's multisensory edge redefines persuasion, enabling rapid empathy that text alone cannot achieve efficiently.
Misnaming video work as "scripts" hides its copywriting essence, creating undervalued entry points for savvy newcomers.
Outsourcing production in video services transforms copywriters into scalable agency owners with low creative overhead.
Client desperation in competitive markets inverts power dynamics, granting copywriters walk-away authority.
Mindset mastery unlocks latent skills, revealing overthinking as the primary barrier to freelance breakthroughs.
Communities like Launchpad provide free, real-time navigation, essential in an unregulated field without formal gatekeepers.
Onboarding barriers in deals safeguard time, ensuring alignment with high-commitment opportunities.

QUOTES

"Emails are the easiest thing to replicate with AI. So, if you think that you're just going to hand in a Google doc with a bunch of emails a couple of times a week, that game is over."
"Clients are producing copy with AI, but it's hot garbage. Like I have seen what my clients are producing with AI and they think they're so cool. Oh, look at this copy that I produce with AI. It sucks."
"You need to be talking about strategy with them. Yeah, this is a shared perspective, bro."
"Whenever you have an industry that has lots of tailwinds and that's like growing really fast, you have a chance to make a lot of money because the industry is what is driving you."
"If you can find a way to get into one of those industries, it doesn't matter whether it's ecom, it doesn't matter whether it's services, it doesn't matter whether it's uh consulting, like you will make a lot of money."
"They're not thinking about that. They're thinking, 'How do we acquire customers at less cost?' Because the costs just keep going up."
"Email might, you know, give you a 10 to 20% lift in the business, maybe 30% if you're really good. But, you know, 30% improvement, it doesn't make that like if you're spending $1 to acquire a customer and, you know, you're getting $2 back, that 30% lift is like 30. It's not the same as like we're spending $1, how do we get $5 back?"
"Why do you give like the best part of you like the best part of yourself, Yes. the most risk takingaking that you can do and the highest potential upside while you give it away to somebody else."
"I could make so much more money just serving myself and like building my own business like the same as you, right?"
"If you have a good funnel and info and you're selling a high ticket course and you have a very good funnel, the sales process gets so much easier."
"You're literally just collecting the pieces from the business that they already have and just structuring it together into a very very simple VSSL."
"So, you're telling me that you can make five times more from this one type of copyrightiting project than writing emails? It's the same amount of work."
"The cost of not having a good copywriter. It's no longer just about growing a business. It's about keeping a business alive."
"If you want a good copywriter for cheap, you need to find them while they still have mindset issues and money mindset issues."
"You were already going to be successful. Like you're just overthinking stuff. Like it's a mindset thing, you know?"

HABITS

Regularly review and edit AI-generated copy to remove repetitive patterns like lists of three or short paragraphs.
Vary sentence structures and lengths intentionally to humanize writing and avoid AI detection.
Focus daily on strategy discussions with clients, beyond just delivering copy, to build retainer value.
Target one high-tailwind industry per quarter, researching trends via real-time sources like community forums.
Use copy systems and AI bots as daily tools to prototype emails or scripts, acting as a review chief.
Bundle backend services like email list management as upsells after initial funnel optimizations.
Set onboarding fees for performance deals to filter serious clients and protect time investment.
Dedicate weekends off while structuring workdays to 3 hours for high-output tasks like video scripts.
Engage actively in online communities to stay updated on market shifts without paywalls.
Build personal offers quarterly, allocating 10% of time to performance bets on own ventures.
Outsource video production elements like acting and editing to scale service delivery.
Track dollar-per-hour metrics weekly to prioritize efficient niches like SaaS or local services.
Consume free resources like $100M Offers daily to bootstrap skills before advanced reading.
Practice writing micro-VSLs in native accents, then polish with AI for fluency.

FACTS

95% of aspiring copywriters identify as email specialists, a role AI has primarily disrupted.
One e-commerce peptide client scaled email revenue from $900 to nearly $1 million monthly via automations.
SaaS companies often produce subpar emails, allowing baseline improvements to boost subscriptions significantly.
Video sales letters can justify $150,000 fees, as seen with experts like Jason Fladlien for $2.5 million webinars.
DTC e-commerce requires constant new creatives due to Meta's ad set expiration policies.
Copywriting Launchpad community grew to 4,000 members after acquisition from Alicia Joseph.
Inflation has shifted freelance baselines: $20,000 monthly is now the minimum for comfort, up from $10,000 pre-2020.
Agencies like Video Dictus charge $3,000-$5,000 for end-to-end B2B video production with 60-80% margins.
Amazon FBA coaching ads dominated 2020-2021 but have declined with post-pandemic market normalization.
Performance deals worked better in 2022 due to lower outreach saturation; now, they're drowned in noise.
Dubai hosts over 5,000 podcast studios, facilitating easy video script production setups.
AI tools like 11 Labs enable voiceovers without owner recording, accelerating video ad creation.
Local service retainers start at $500/month but scale to $30,000 via volume and automations.
Info businesses view funnels as primary assets, lacking equity beyond personal brands.

REFERENCES

Copywriting Launchpad (free community and school for beginners, including Copywriter Starter Kit course).
Copy Skills (Nabeel Azeez's coaching program).
Copy Dojo (Matthew Woodward's mastermind for successful copywriters).
$100M Offers, $100M Leads, $100M Money Models (free courses by Alex Hormozi on acquisition.com).
Breakthrough Advertising (recommended copywriting book).
GHL (GoHighLevel CRM tool for automations).
HubSpot (CRM platform for marketing management).
Klaviyo (email marketing tool, referred to as Bento in transcript).
Copy Systems (tool for generating copy with AI integration).
11 Labs (AI voiceover tool for video production).
Video Dictus (Helena's agency for productized B2B video services at videodeck.co).
Bento (email marketing platform by Jesse Hanley).
Dropkick Copy (Nabeel's email marketing agency).
Muslim Man (Nabeel's personal offer/business).

HOW TO APPLY

Identify your current skill level: beginners start with video scripts; advanced tackle full funnel builds.
Research tailwind industries weekly, like peptides or AI tools, using Google Trends and community chats.
Audit client AI copy samples to practice editing for human tones, varying syntax daily.
Pitch backend email upsells after funnel wins, quoting $3K-$5K monthly based on list size.
Create a $500 micro-VSL template for SaaS homepages, collecting product details first.
Set onboarding fees at 20-50% of project value to qualify performance-interested leads.
Join Copywriting Launchpad, complete Starter Kit, and engage to Level 2 for AI cheat sheets.
Bundle video scripts with production outsourcing: script via AI, book studios/actors locally.
Track ad cost trends in target niches, positioning copy as cost-reduction strategy in outreach.
Launch a personal info offer quarterly, using funnel skills learned from client work.
Review gig bell curve: allocate 50% time to low-effort locals or high-strategy CMO roles.
Use free Hormozi resources to build offer foundations before client pursuits.
Network in communities for referrals, aiming for one big "launchpad" client per quarter.

ONE-SENTENCE TAKEAWAY

Shift to strategic video and funnel copy in booming industries to command fivefold earnings over AI-hit emails.

RECOMMENDATIONS

Prioritize video script writing for quick entry, charging $500 per 400-500 word piece to hit $30K monthly.
Target SaaS and peptide sectors for high dollar-per-hour efficiency without elite skills.
Integrate AI as an editor, not replacer, to scale output while humanizing strategy.
Avoid pure performance deals; demand onboarding fees to balance risk.
Bundle funnel, video, and backend emails into $10K+ retainers for full-business coverage.
Join free communities like Copywriting Launchpad for real-time trend intel.
Launch personal offers over coaching copywriters, entering blue oceans like homeschooling tools.
Outsource video production to actors and studios for 60-80% margin services at $3K each.
Focus on tailwinds: scout emerging markets like AI automation over fading niches.
Edit AI copy rigorously, avoiding threes and short forms for authentic variation.
Upsell CRM management post-funnel fixes for recurring $3K-$8K revenue.
Build walk-away power by diversifying to own ventures amid client desperation.
Train mindset via community action, ditching overthinking for momentum.
Productize services: offer end-to-end VSLs with variations for B2B targets.
Measure success by $20K monthly baselines, scaling via volume in locals or elites.
Refer juniors to startups only after product-market fit confirmation.

MEMO

In the evolving landscape of copywriting, where artificial intelligence has commoditized routine tasks like email drafting, experts Matthew Woodward and Nabeel Azeez argue that true opportunity lies in strategic, high-impact projects. During their candid interview, they dissect how AI-generated content often yields "hot garbage," forcing clients to seek human strategists who can refine it into revenue drivers. Azeez, a seasoned copywriter coaching six-figure earners, emphasizes that 95% of aspiring writers cling to email roles—now obsolete—while overlooking booming sectors like peptides and SaaS, where market tailwinds propel earnings without requiring genius-level prose.

The duo highlights a bell curve of gigs: at the low end, local services demand simple ads and automations for steady $500 monthly retainers, scalable to $30,000 through volume. Mid-tier traps, like ad or social copy, suffer from vague ROI measurement amid rising acquisition costs. High-end pursuits, such as fractional CMO roles, command $10,000-$20,000 retainers plus royalties, but demand elite orchestration of funnels and teams. Woodward warns against outdated advice from "frozen" coaches, urging real-time adaptation—witness the fade of Amazon FBA coaching post-pandemic, replaced by AI automation waves.

Funnel copy emerges as the crown jewel for advanced writers, especially in info products and DTC e-commerce. These assets—landing pages, VSLs, and retargeting—form the backbone of launches, justifying fees up to $150,000 for webinars that generate millions. Azeez recounts a peptide e-commerce client surging from $900 to $3 million monthly via email automations, underscoring how industry hype eases sales. Yet, performance deals draw sharp critique: they undervalue freelancers by handing upside to clients, better reserved for personal ventures like Azeez's Copy Skills program.

Video copy steals the spotlight for newcomers, offering five times email rates for comparable effort—$500 for 500-word scripts versus $100 emails. Its multisensory power, enhanced by AI tools like 11 Labs for voiceovers, crafts hooks via visuals that text can't match. Woodward envisions productized services: write scripts, outsource production to Dubai's 5,000 podcast studios, and pocket 60-80% margins on $3,000 videos. Azeez shares a cautionary tale of an underpaid in-house writer burning out on 50 weekly creatives, reinforcing the need to quote premiums for sustainability.

Power dynamics have flipped: businesses now plead for copywriters to survive ad inflation, not just scale. Azeez rejects lowball performance pitches, demanding $5,000-$10,000 onboarding to filter seriousness. The pair launches Copywriting Launchpad, a free 4,000-member hub with starter kits and AI cheat sheets, democratizing trenches intel sans paywalls. For global talents, it bridges language gaps, polishing accents into native fluency.

Mindset emerges as the silent saboteur—Azeez notes many stall from overthinking, not skill deficits. Their advice: launch careers via one "launchpad" client for data and branding, then diversify. In an unregulated field bereft of bar exams, communities like theirs provide essential navigation, ensuring copywriters don't chase ghosts from 2020.

As inflation redefines $20,000 monthly as baseline, the path forward blends craft with business acumen: humanize AI, chase tailwinds, and command value. Copywriting endures not despite AI, but amplified by it—strategists thrive where slop fails.