SUMMARY

In a rediscovered 1995 interview, journalist Robert X. Cringely converses with Steve Jobs about his early fascination with computers, founding Apple, innovations like the Macintosh, corporate challenges, and visions for technology's future blending art and communication.

STATEMENTS

Steve Jobs first encountered a computer at age 10 or 11 through a time-sharing terminal at NASA Ames Research Center, which captivated him despite its primitive teletype interface.
Jobs cold-called Bill Hewlett at Hewlett-Packard at age 12, securing spare parts and a summer job that shaped his view of a company valuing employees.
At Hewlett-Packard's Palo Alto labs, Jobs discovered the HP 9100, the first desktop computer, which he programmed extensively, igniting his passion for self-contained machines.
Jobs met Steve Wozniak around age 14 or 15, bonding over electronics and collaborating on projects inspired by stories like Captain Crunch's free phone calls.
Jobs and Wozniak built blue boxes to make free long-distance calls by mimicking AT&T's signaling tones, teaching them they could control vast infrastructure with simple devices.
Their blue box allowed global calls, including a prank to the Vatican posing as Henry Kissinger, highlighting the thrill of hacking telephone networks.
Necessity drove Jobs and Wozniak to build a terminal for free time-sharing access, evolving into the Apple I as an extension with a microprocessor.
They assembled Apple I computers by hand in a garage, scavenging parts, and helped friends build them until demand led to printed circuit boards.
Selling their Volkswagen bus and calculator funded the Apple I's PCB production, and a deal with the Byte Shop for 50 assembled units launched their business.
Mike Markkula joined as an equal partner, providing capital and expertise to package the Apple II for non-hobbyists with color graphics and plastic casing.
The Apple II debuted at the West Coast Computer Faire, stealing the show with advanced graphics and attracting dealers.
Jobs learned business by questioning "why" practices, criticizing folklore like standard costing that masked poor information systems.
Computers teach thinking like a liberal art, akin to law school, by mirroring thought processes, and everyone should learn programming.
Becoming rich young—$1 million at 23, $100 million at 25—mattered less than building the company, products, and enabling people.
At Xerox PARC in 1979, Jobs saw the graphical user interface, recognizing its inevitability for all future computers despite flaws.
Xerox failed due to "toner heads" prioritizing sales over product innovation, rotting the genius that could have dominated computing.
IBM's entry scared Apple, but their genius lay in creating vested interests among partners, saving their initially terrible PC.
Implementing Xerox ideas at Apple faced resistance from HP transplants who dismissed mice and proportional fonts as impractical.
Companies falter by institutionalizing processes over content, leading to IBM's downfall and Apple's drift with the Lisa project.
The Macintosh team reinvented Apple through automation, low-cost microprocessors, and a $1,000 price target, succeeding after four years.
Great products require craftsmanship bridging ideas to reality, involving daily trade-offs and 5,000 concepts in the designer's mind.
Jobs likened team passion to a rock tumbler, where friction among talented people polishes ideas into beautiful results.
Success stems from assembling A-players who self-polish and hire only equals, creating exponential quality in software and hardware.
Motivating teams demands direct feedback on work quality without questioning abilities, prioritizing success over being right.
Apple pioneered desktop publishing with the LaserWriter, partnering with Adobe and Canon, becoming the world's top printer revenue company.
Jobs' 1985 departure from Apple was painful, blaming John Sculley's survival instincts for scapegoating him amid recession and leadership vacuum.
Apple's 1995 state was dying due to stagnation, eroding its 10-year lead while Microsoft opportunistically built on IBM's boost.
NeXT focused on object-oriented software, enabling 10x faster development and infiltrating business as a competitive weapon.
The web fulfills computing's communication dream, enabling direct sales and equalizing small companies, defining the next decade.
Humans amplify abilities with tools like the bicycle, and computers rank as the ultimate invention for mind amplification.
Taste guides direction by stealing from great art, music, and history, blending liberal arts with computer science for inspired products.
Jobs identifies as a hippie, seeking life's deeper spark beyond routine, infusing products with spirit that users sense and love.

IDEAS

Early access to computers via time-sharing terminals sparked lifelong curiosity by turning abstract ideas into executable results.
Cold-calling industry leaders at 12 demonstrated audacity yielding mentorship and jobs, revealing open networks of the era.
Blue boxing illustrated how simple inventions could hijack billion-dollar infrastructures, empowering youth to challenge giants.
Building devices from scavenged parts fostered self-reliance, evolving necessity into commercial innovation like the Apple I.
Assembling computers by hand built skills that friends lacked, turning personal projects into a burgeoning business model.
Funding startups through personal sacrifices, like selling a bus, highlights bootstrapping's raw determination over formal capital.
Packaging for non-hobbyists expanded markets thousandfold, democratizing technology beyond elite tinkerers.
Questioning business "folklore" uncovers inefficiencies, like standard costing hiding poor controls, accelerating learning.
Programming as a liberal art trains logical thinking, mirroring law school's rigor without career commitment.
Wealth accumulation young dilutes motivation if not tied to purpose, prioritizing products over personal gain.
Xerox's GUI demo blinded observers to networking and objects, showing how breakthroughs overshadow adjacent innovations.
Monopolies breed sales-driven "toner heads" who erode product genius, turning innovators into bureaucrats.
Vested partnerships, not solo effort, rescued IBM's flawed PC, leveraging ecosystems for survival.
Resistance from process-oriented hires stifled vision, proving content experts trump managerial efficiency.
Institutionalizing success formulas confuses process for essence, dooming giants like IBM by neglecting creativity.
Macintosh's reinvention via automation and volume pricing slashed costs, proving agility beats legacy scale.
Craftsmanship in design juggles thousands of trade-offs, evolving ideas through friction and daily discoveries.
Team dynamics as rock tumblers polish talents via arguments, yielding superior outcomes from passionate collisions.
A-player clusters self-perpetuate excellence, rejecting mediocrity for exponential innovation in high-stakes fields.
Direct, work-focused feedback sustains top talent, valuing clarity over ego to realign efforts toward goals.
Pioneering laser printing integrated hardware-software ecosystems, transforming niches into market dominance.
CEO survival instincts scapegoat visionaries during crises, fracturing leadership and derailing trajectories.
Stagnation erodes leads; Apple's post-Jobs R&D billion yielded minimal evolution, inviting copycats.
Object-oriented tech revolutionizes software creation, multiplying speed while enhancing quality for business warfare.
Web as communication device equalizes commerce, shifting catalogs online and empowering smallest players globally.
Tools like bicycles amplify human efficiency, positioning computers as history's pinnacle for cognitive leverage.
Stealing from arts infuses tech with taste, creating products with soul that resonate emotionally.
Hippie ethos seeks transcendent sparks, rejecting materialism to embed wonder in everyday creations.

INSIGHTS

Youthful audacity in accessing forbidden tech realms builds foundational confidence to innovate disruptively.
Controlling vast systems with homemade devices reveals power asymmetries, inspiring underdogs to reshape industries.
Bootstrapping from necessity cultivates resilience, turning personal hacks into scalable enterprises.
Questioning entrenched practices exposes hidden flaws, enabling rapid mastery of complex domains like business.
Liberal arts integration into tech fosters holistic thinking, elevating machines from tools to cultural amplifiers.
True wealth lies in impact, not accumulation, sustaining drive through purpose over financial metrics.
Breakthroughs often blind to synergies, demanding broad vision to capitalize on multiple innovations.
Monopolistic complacency invites internal rot, where sales eclipse creation, dooming once-dominant entities.
Ecosystems of allies amplify weaknesses, transforming flawed launches into enduring successes.
Prioritizing content over process preserves innovative cores, avoiding the trap of bureaucratic mimicry.
Passionate teams evolve through conflict, refining raw ideas into polished masterpieces via collective friction.
Elite talent networks self-sustain high standards, creating virtuous cycles of excellence and exclusion of average.
Candid critique on deliverables, not individuals, sharpens performance without eroding self-worth.
Strategic pivots like software focus unlock hidden potentials, averting hardware commoditization pitfalls.
Crises expose leadership voids, where survival trumps vision, fragmenting organizational unity.
Inertia post-visionary exit accelerates decline, as copied innovations erode without forward momentum.
Software's potency as a weapon redefines competition, outpacing hardware in enabling novel services.
Communication trumps computation in computing's future, with webs democratizing access and expression.
Tool-building essence amplifies humanity, with computers poised to redefine cognitive and societal boundaries.
Taste, drawn from diverse excellences, guides ethical directions, stealing boldly to enrich creations.

QUOTES

"You could build something ourselves that could control billions of dollars worth of infrastructure in the world."
"I think everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer... because it teaches you how to think."
"Money is a wonderful thing because it enables you to do things... but... it was not the most important thing."
"Within 10 minutes it was obvious to me that all computers would work like this someday."
"They just had these toner heads... no clue about what they were seeing."
"It's not process it's content... that's what makes great products."
"Designing a product is keeping 5,000 things in your brain... and every day you discover something new."
"The same common stones that had gone in through rubbing against each other... had come out these beautiful polished rocks."
"I've built a lot of my success off finding these truly gifted people and not settling for B and C players."
"When you say someone's work is shit... it means their work is not anywhere near good enough."
"I don't really care about being right... what matters to me is that we do the right thing."
"Good artists copy, great artists steal."
"There's something more going on... another side of the coin that we don't talk about much."
"Computers are the medium that is best capable of transmitting some feeling that you want to share with other people."
"The personal computer was the bicycle of the mind."

HABITS

Cold-calling experts for advice and parts to solve immediate technical challenges.
Spending hours programming machines like the HP 9100 to explore and master new technologies.
Scavenging and assembling electronics from diverse sources to build prototypes affordably.
Questioning every business practice by asking "why" to uncover underlying inefficiencies.
Visiting factories worldwide, like 80 in Japan, to learn and adapt manufacturing innovations.
Assembling small, mission-driven teams of top talents focused on passionate, high-stakes projects.
Providing direct, specific feedback on work quality to realign efforts without ego involvement.
Stealing ideas from arts, music, and history to infuse technology with broader cultural depth.
Prioritizing product content over managerial processes to drive genuine innovation.
Reflecting on personal experiences, like rock tumbling, to metaphorically guide team dynamics.
Changing opinions quickly based on evidence to ensure decisions prioritize success.
Seeking transcendent experiences beyond routine to embed deeper meaning in creations.
Building tools that amplify human abilities, viewing computers as extensions of the mind.

FACTS

In 1995, Steve Jobs was running NeXT, a $50-75 million company with 300 employees focused on object-oriented software.
Jobs became worth over $100 million by age 25 through Apple's growth, yet never sold stock believing in long-term success.
Xerox PARC demonstrated GUI in 1979, but failed to commercialize, potentially missing dominance worth trillions.
Apple introduced the first LaserWriter in 1985, making it the world's largest printer revenue company by Jobs' departure.
IBM's 1981 PC was initially terrible, but partnerships with firms like Microsoft saved it from failure.
The Macintosh project took four years, including building the world's first automated computer factory in California.
Blue boxes allowed calls orbiting Earth five or six times via satellite codes before reaching a nearby payphone.
Humans on bicycles outperform condors in locomotion efficiency, as measured in a Scientific American study Jobs read young.
MCI's Friends and Family program gained billions from AT&T via superior custom billing software, unmatchable for 18 months.

REFERENCES

Time-sharing terminal at NASA Ames Research Center.
HP 9100 desktop computer.
Esquire magazine article on Captain Crunch.
AT&T technical journal from Stanford Linear Accelerator Center library.
Basic and Fortran programming languages.
APL programming language.
Volkswagen bus (sold for funding).
Scientific calculator (sold for funding).
Byte Shop in Mountain View (first computer store).
West Coast Computer Faire.
Xerox PARC's Alto computers and networked system.
Object-oriented programming from Xerox PARC.
Graphical user interface demo at Xerox PARC.
Lisa computer project.
Macintosh automated factory in California.
68,000 microprocessor.
Canon Laser Printer engine.
Adobe software for LaserWriter.
PepsiCo's product development model.
NeXT object-oriented technology.
World Wide Web and Internet.
Scientific American article on locomotion efficiency.
Picasso's saying on artists copying and stealing.
Rock tumbler as team metaphor.

HOW TO APPLY

Encounter technology early through accessible interfaces like terminals to spark curiosity and experimentation.
Cold-call industry leaders for resources, turning naivety into opportunities for mentorship and employment.
Collaborate with skilled peers on boundary-pushing projects, like blue boxing, to learn control over complex systems.
Build prototypes from scavenged parts to solve personal needs, extending them into marketable products.
Sacrifice personal assets to fund initial production, enabling bootstrapped entry into business.
Design for mass accessibility, packaging tech for non-experts to expand beyond hobbyist niches.
Question all practices rigorously, replacing folklore with data-driven efficiencies like real-time costing.
Learn programming as a thinking tool, applying it across disciplines for structured problem-solving.
Visit innovators like Xerox PARC to absorb ideas, then adapt them aggressively despite resistance.
Assemble A-player teams emphasizing content over process, fostering self-policing excellence.
Iterate designs through daily trade-offs, juggling concepts to evolve ideas into refined realities.
Infuse products with liberal arts taste, stealing from diverse fields to create emotionally resonant tech.

ONE-SENTENCE TAKEAWAY

Steve Jobs' journey reveals blending audacious innovation, passionate teams, and humanistic vision propels technology toward profound societal amplification.

RECOMMENDATIONS

Expose children to computers early via interactive terminals to cultivate lifelong innovative thinking.
Seek mentors by directly contacting leaders, leveraging openness to gain practical guidance.
Experiment with hacking-like projects to grasp infrastructure control and build confidence.
Scavenge resources creatively to prototype affordably, turning constraints into inventive solutions.
Question business norms deeply to dismantle inefficiencies and accelerate operational learning.
Prioritize programming education for all, treating it as essential liberal arts training.
Shun quick wealth pursuits, focusing instead on product impact for sustained motivation.
Visit pioneering labs to steal and refine ideas, avoiding blindness to multifaceted breakthroughs.
Assemble elite teams of A-players who thrive on mutual challenge for superior outcomes.
Provide blunt, work-centric feedback to top talents, ensuring alignment without ego damage.
Reinvent manufacturing through global study and automation to slash costs dramatically.
Pivot to software ecosystems for enduring leverage over hardware commoditization.
Embed artistic taste in tech, drawing from poetry and history for soulful products.
Champion web communication to democratize commerce and equalize business scales.
Amplify human potentials with tools, nudging computing toward enlightenment directions.

MEMO

In 1995, amid the hum of Silicon Valley's evolving tech landscape, journalist Robert X. Cringely unearthed a treasure from his garage: a full VHS of his "lost" interview with Steve Jobs, conducted a decade after Jobs' ousting from Apple. At 40, Jobs was steering NeXT, a modest software firm, but his charisma and foresight shone through as he recounted his improbable path from a 12-year-old tinkerer to tech visionary. The conversation, raw and unfiltered, captured Jobs' early enchantment with computers—not as distant monoliths from sci-fi, but as thrilling partners in creation via primitive terminals at NASA Ames.

Jobs' origin story began with audacious innocence: dialing Bill Hewlett for parts, landing a job at Hewlett-Packard, and falling for the HP 9100, a suitcase-sized marvel that programmed like a dream. Meeting Steve Wozniak ignited their blue-box escapades, mimicking AT&T tones to commandeer global phone networks for free calls—even pranking the Vatican as Henry Kissinger. These youthful hacks taught a profound lesson: two kids could seize billion-dollar infrastructures with ingenuity. Necessity birthed the Apple I, a garage-assembled terminal fused with a microprocessor, sold to friends until a Byte Shop deal for 50 units—funded by a bus and calculator sale—propelled them into business.

The Apple II marked a leap, thanks to Mike Markkula's investment and design savvy, transforming hobbyist boards into plastic-clad powerhouses with color graphics. Debuting at the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977, it dazzled, lining up distributors and catapulting 21-year-old Jobs to riches—$100 million by 25. Yet money paled against purpose; Jobs decried business "folklore," like vague costing, urging deep questioning to master operations. He championed programming as a liberal art, a mental gym rivaling law school, essential for clear thinking amid life's ambiguities.

Xerox PARC's 1979 demo of graphical interfaces mesmerized Jobs, foreseeing its ubiquity despite flaws—blinding him initially to networking and objects. Xerox's downfall? "Toner heads" from sales eclipsed innovators, rotting product genius in monopolistic complacency. IBM's PC terrified Apple but survived via partner ecosystems, while Jobs battled internal resistance at Apple from process-obsessed HP alumni doubting mice or fonts. The Macintosh arose from this fray, a $1,000 savior reinventing manufacturing with Japanese-inspired automation and volume deals, birthed by a "mission from God" team.

Crafting the Mac demanded juggling 5,000 ideas daily, evolving through trade-offs in electrons, plastic, and robots. Jobs likened the team's friction to a rock tumbler: talented clashes polishing raw stones into gems. Success hinged on A-players—50-to-100x better than average—who self-recruited equals, rejecting mediocrity. Direct feedback sharpened their work without ego bruising, though intensity burned some out. Desktop publishing via the LaserWriter, a Canon-Adobe alliance, crowned the Mac's killer app, making Apple the printer revenue king before Jobs' 1985 exit.

That departure scarred deeply: John Sculley's Pepsi-honed survival instincts scapegoated Jobs amid recession, fracturing Apple's vision. By 1995, Jobs lamented Apple's "glide slope to die," its 10-year lead squandered in stagnation while Microsoft, boosted by IBM, opportunistically dominated with pedestrian products lacking taste or spirit. NeXT, meanwhile, perfected object-oriented software for 10x faster builds, arming businesses against rivals like MCI's billing triumphs.

Peering ahead, Jobs hailed the web as computing's communicative rebirth—unowned by Microsoft, it would eclipse catalogs, equalizing firms from garage to giant. Tools like bicycles amplify humanity; computers, the mind's apex invention, demanded nudges toward enlightenment. Taste, stolen from Picasso to poets, guided this: blend liberal arts with code for products pulsing with hippie spark—transcendent beyond jobs and cars, transmitting shared feelings. Jobs, ever the dreamer in nerd's clothing, embodied this fusion, his interview a testament to tech's potential for human flourishing.