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    Steve Jobs - The Lost Interview (11 May 2012) [VO] [ST-FR] [Ultra HD 4K]

    Nov 11, 2025

    20441 symbols

    13 min read

    SUMMARY

    In a rediscovered 1995 interview, Steve Jobs recounts his early fascination with computers, founding Apple with Steve Wozniak, innovations like the Macintosh, conflicts leading to his ouster, and visions for software and the web's transformative role.

    STATEMENTS

    • Steve Jobs first encountered a computer at age 10 or 11 through a time-sharing terminal at NASA Ames Research Center, sparking his lifelong passion.
    • Jobs cold-called Bill Hewlett at Hewlett-Packard at age 12, securing parts and a summer job that shaped his view of company culture.
    • Jobs attended Hewlett-Packard's Palo Alto research labs, where he first saw the HP 9100, the earliest desktop computer, igniting his love for programming.
    • Jobs met Steve Wozniak around age 14 or 15, bonding over electronics and starting collaborative projects.
    • Jobs and Wozniak built blue boxes to make free phone calls after discovering AT&T's signaling tones in a technical journal.
    • The blue box project taught Jobs and Wozniak they could control vast infrastructure with simple devices, inspiring the creation of Apple.
    • Jobs and Wozniak designed and built their own terminal to access free time-sharing computers, as they couldn't afford one.
    • The Apple I was an extension of their terminal project, assembled by hand in garages using scavenged parts.
    • To meet demand from friends, Jobs and Wozniak created printed circuit boards for the Apple I, selling them to reclaim time and costs.
    • Paul Terrell of the Byte Shop ordered 50 fully assembled Apple I boards, prompting Jobs and Wozniak to source parts on credit and enter business.
    • Mike Markkula joined as an equal partner after investing money and expertise, enabling the Apple II's development and packaging.
    • The Apple II debuted at the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977, showcasing advanced color graphics and attracting distributors.
    • Jobs learned business by questioning "why" practices exist, rejecting folklore like standard costing for real-time cost tracking.
    • Jobs advocated programming as a liberal art that teaches structured thinking, akin to law school.
    • Jobs became a multimillionaire by age 25 but prioritized company, people, and products over money.
    • At Xerox PARC in 1979, Jobs saw the graphical user interface, recognizing its inevitability for all future computers.
    • Xerox failed to commercialize innovations due to sales-driven leadership eroding product sensibility.
    • IBM's entry scared Apple, but its initial poor product improved through ecosystem partnerships.
    • Jobs assembled a Macintosh team, overcoming resistance from HP transplants by prototyping a cheap mouse quickly.
    • Companies falter by institutionalizing process over content, as seen in IBM and early Apple issues.
    • The Lisa project mismatched Apple's market by pricing at $10,000, alienating customers.
    • After losing leadership of Lisa to John Couch, Jobs formed the Macintosh team to save Apple.
    • Macintosh development reinvented manufacturing, distribution, and marketing, launching at $2,500.
    • Jobs motivated teams through passion, viewing idea-to-product as craftsmanship involving constant trade-offs.
    • Great teams polish ideas like rocks in a tumbler, through friction and collaboration among top talent.
    • In software and hardware, top performers outperform average by 50-100 times, justifying pursuit of A-players.
    • Macintosh team worked intensely, with Jobs providing direct feedback to maintain high standards.
    • Apple pioneered desktop publishing by partnering with Adobe and Canon for the LaserWriter.
    • Jobs' 1985 ouster stemmed from recession leadership vacuum and Sculley's survival instincts blaming him.
    • Apple's post-departure stagnation allowed Microsoft to catch up, eroding its lead.
    • Microsoft succeeded via opportunism and persistence but lacks taste, producing uninspired products.
    • NeXT focuses on object-oriented software, enabling 10x faster development and infiltrating business.
    • The web transforms computing into communication, enabling direct sales and equalizing company sizes.

    IDEAS

    • Encountering a teletype terminal as a child revealed computers as mysterious executors of ideas, thrilling in their responsiveness.
    • Cold-calling industry leaders at 12 demonstrated audacity yielding opportunities like jobs and mentorship.
    • Blue boxing illustrated how youthful ingenuity could hijack global networks, fostering empowerment through creation.
    • Assembling computers from scavenged parts highlighted self-reliance as a gateway to innovation.
    • Transitioning from hobbyist boards to commercial products underscored the value of simplifying assembly for broader access.
    • Venture capital introductions revealed personal charisma's role in securing partnerships beyond money.
    • Questioning business "folklore" exposed inefficiencies, promoting deeper thinking for rapid learning.
    • Programming as a mirror for thought processes emphasized its universal educational value beyond technical use.
    • Wealth accumulation without attachment allowed focus on long-term impact over short-term gains.
    • Graphical interfaces at Xerox PARC blinded viewers to other innovations, showing idea dominance.
    • Corporate monopolies breed sales over product focus, rotting innovation from within.
    • Prototyping against expert skepticism proved leadership in overriding doubt with action.
    • Process institutionalization confuses means with ends, leading to downfall in scaling successes.
    • Team motivation via shared mission from "God" reframed challenges as salvific endeavors.
    • Idea evolution demands craftsmanship, evolving through daily discoveries and trade-offs.
    • Rock tumbler metaphor captures team friction polishing raw ideas into gems.
    • Exponential talent gaps in tech justify relentless A-player recruitment for self-sustaining excellence.
    • Direct feedback on work, not egos, sustains high performance without coddling.
    • Pivoting internal projects to acquisitions accelerated desktop publishing dominance.
    • Survival instincts in crises can scapegoat innovators, fracturing visions.
    • Stagnation post-leadership loss evaporates institutional knowledge, inviting competitors.
    • Opportunism plus persistence turns boosts like IBM deals into lasting dominance.
    • Taste infuses products with cultural depth, elevating them beyond functionality.
    • Object-oriented tech revolutionizes software creation, amplifying business competitiveness.
    • Web as communication device fulfills dreams, democratizing commerce and innovation.
    • Bicycles amplifying human efficiency symbolize tools like computers magnifying intellect.
    • Stealing great ideas shamelessly, per Picasso, integrates liberal arts into tech.
    • Hippie ethos seeks life's deeper sparks, infusing products with transcendent spirit.

    INSIGHTS

    • Early hands-on access to technology instills profound curiosity, shaping lifelong innovation paths.
    • Youthful boundary-pushing, like blue boxing, teaches control over complex systems through simplicity.
    • Business thrives on relentless questioning of norms, dismantling outdated practices for efficiency.
    • Programming cultivates logical thinking, serving as a foundational liberal art for all.
    • Detached wealth pursuit enables investment in visionary ideas without distraction.
    • Revolutionary ideas like GUIs demand immediate recognition of inevitability despite flaws.
    • Monopolies erode via internal promotion of sales over product passion.
    • True leadership prototypes boldly, bypassing institutional inertia.
    • Content mastery trumps process in creating enduring successes.
    • Intense team dynamics forge brilliance through collaborative friction.
    • Exponential talent disparities in creative fields reward elite assemblies.
    • Candid work critiques preserve team excellence without ego damage.
    • Strategic pivots to partnerships outpace isolated development.
    • Leadership vacuums in downturns amplify scapegoating of visionaries.
    • Innovation evaporation follows visionary departures, highlighting institutional fragility.
    • Cultural taste elevates products, fostering societal enlightenment.
    • Software revolutions like objects empower rapid, potent service delivery.
    • Web democratizes access, shifting computing from isolation to connection.
    • Tools like computers represent humanity's pinnacle amplification of abilities.
    • Multidisciplinary teams infuse tech with humanistic depth and vitality.

    QUOTES

    • "We could build something ourselves that could control billions of dollars worth of infrastructure in the world."
    • "I think everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer... it teaches you how to think."
    • "Money is a wonderful thing because it enables you to do things... but it was not the most important thing."
    • "It was obvious to me that all computers would work like this someday."
    • "They just had no clue about what they were seeing."
    • "It's not process it's content."
    • "Designing a product is keeping 5,000 things in your brain... and fitting them all together."
    • "Through that group of incredibly talented people bumping up against each other... they polish each other and they polish the ideas."
    • "In software... the difference between average and the best is 50 to one maybe 100 to one."
    • "When you say someone's work is shit, you really mean I don't quite understand it."
    • "Good artists copy, great artists steal."
    • "There's something more going on... another side of the coin that we don't talk about much."
    • "Computers... are the medium that is best capable of transmitting some feeling that you want to share with other people."
    • "The web is going to be the defining technology... the defining social moment for computer."

    HABITS

    • Cold-calling experts for parts and advice, demonstrating proactive networking from youth.
    • Attending weekly lab sessions to tinker with early computers, building practical skills.
    • Collaborating intensely on projects like blue boxes, fostering shared experimentation.
    • Scavenging and hand-assembling components, emphasizing resourcefulness over expense.
    • Questioning every business practice deeply, rejecting unexamined traditions.
    • Hiring and surrounding oneself with top A-players, creating self-policing excellence.
    • Providing direct, work-focused feedback to maintain high standards without ego stroking.
    • Visiting global factories for inspiration, like 80 in Japan for manufacturing reinvention.
    • Integrating liberal arts exposure, drawing from music, poetry, and history into tech work.
    • Focusing on long-term product impact over immediate financial gains.
    • Motivating teams through shared passion and mission-driven narratives.

    FACTS

    • Jobs first used a computer via a teletype terminal at NASA Ames around 1965-1966.
    • Hewlett-Packard offered donut and coffee breaks in the 1960s to value employees.
    • Blue boxes exploited AT&T's voice-band signaling flaw for free international calls.
    • The Byte Shop was the world's first computer store, later becoming an adult bookstore.
    • Apple II launched at 1977 West Coast Computer Faire with color graphics ahead of peers.
    • Xerox PARC demonstrated GUI in 1979, but commercialized nothing from it.
    • Macintosh mouse prototyped in 90 days for $15, against predictions of $300 and five years.
    • LaserWriter was first U.S. laser printer, using Canon engine and Adobe software.
    • Apple became world's largest printer company by revenue when Jobs left in 1985.
    • IBM's 1981 PC entry leveraged ecosystem to improve from initial flaws.
    • NeXT in 1995 had 300 employees and $50-75 million revenue in object software.
    • Web enabled catalog sales shift, projecting tens of billions in e-commerce by 2005.
    • Human bicycle efficiency surpasses condor's in Scientific American study.

    REFERENCES

    • Time-sharing terminal at NASA Ames Research Center.
    • Bill Hewlett and Hewlett-Packard summer job.
    • HP 9100 desktop computer.
    • Steve Wozniak as electronics collaborator.
    • Esquire magazine article on Captain Crunch.
    • AT&T technical journal on signaling tones.
    • Stanford Linear Accelerator Center library.
    • Volkswagen bus and calculator sold for PCB funds.
    • Byte Shop in Mountain View, run by Paul Terrell.
    • Don Valentine as venture capitalist introducer.
    • Mike Markkula from Intel.
    • West Coast Computer Faire 1977.
    • Xerox PARC demonstrations: GUI, object-oriented programming, networked Alto computers.
    • David Kelley for mouse design.
    • Lisa project and John Couch.
    • John Sculley from PepsiCo.
    • Macintosh team and automated factory in California.
    • Canon laser printer engine.
    • Adobe software and 19.9% stake.
    • LaserWriter printer.
    • MCI's Friends and Family billing software.
    • Picasso's saying on copying and stealing.
    • Scientific American article on locomotion efficiency.
    • Rock tumbler metaphor from elderly neighbor.

    HOW TO APPLY

    • Access early tech through available resources like terminals to spark curiosity.
    • Cold-call mentors in your field for advice and opportunities.
    • Collaborate with skilled peers on boundary-pushing projects.
    • Build prototypes from scavenged parts to solve personal needs.
    • Create printed circuit boards or modular designs to simplify assembly for others.
    • Approach stores or distributors with assembled products to test market demand.
    • Secure credit from suppliers for initial production runs.
    • Seek venture partners who contribute expertise, not just capital.
    • Visit innovation hubs like research labs to absorb cutting-edge ideas.
    • Question all business processes to eliminate folklore and inefficiencies.
    • Learn programming to structure and mirror your thinking.
    • Prioritize product content over rigid processes in team management.
    • Prototype quickly against skepticism to validate ideas.
    • Assemble multidisciplinary A-players for self-sustaining innovation.
    • Provide direct feedback on work to elevate performance.
    • Pivot internal efforts to strategic partnerships for acceleration.
    • Motivate teams with mission-driven passion and trade-off craftsmanship.
    • Integrate liberal arts influences for culturally rich products.
    • Nudge technological vectors early for long-term societal impact.

    ONE-SENTENCE TAKEAWAY

    Embrace curiosity, assemble elite teams, and infuse technology with humanistic taste to amplify human potential profoundly.

    RECOMMENDATIONS

    • Pursue hands-on tech experiences early to cultivate deep passion.
    • Network boldly with industry leaders regardless of age or status.
    • Experiment with rule-bending projects to learn system control.
    • Simplify complex builds for accessibility to expand user base.
    • Challenge business norms through persistent questioning.
    • Treat programming as essential education for logical thinking.
    • Focus on long-term vision over short-term wealth accumulation.
    • Absorb revolutionary ideas from peers like Xerox innovations.
    • Combat corporate drift by prioritizing product over sales.
    • Prototype innovations swiftly to overcome internal resistance.
    • Build teams of top talent for exponential output gains.
    • Deliver candid work critiques to sustain excellence.
    • Partner strategically for technologies like desktop publishing.
    • Recognize leadership vacuums to avoid scapegoating pitfalls.
    • Develop software tools that enable rapid business disruption.
    • Champion the web for democratizing communication and commerce.
    • View computers as mind-amplifying bicycles of intellect.
    • Steal and integrate great ideas from diverse fields shamelessly.
    • Seek life's deeper sparks to infuse products with spirit.
    • Surround yourself with hippie-like seekers of transcendence.

    MEMO

    In 1995, as the tech world buzzed with uncertainty, Steve Jobs sat for a rare, unfiltered interview with journalist Robert X. Cringely, recounting his improbable journey from a curious 10-year-old tinkering with a teletype terminal at NASA Ames to co-founding Apple. Jobs vividly described his first computer encounter as a "thrilling experience," where basic programs executed ideas in real time, igniting a passion that led him to cold-call Hewlett-Packard's Bill Hewlett at age 12 for parts—and landing a summer job that imprinted HP's employee-centric culture on his young mind. This early audacity extended to weekly visits to HP labs, where the suitcase-sized HP 9100 desktop computer captivated him, foreshadowing personal computing's future.

    Jobs' partnership with Steve Wozniak, forged in 1970s Silicon Valley, epitomized youthful rebellion and ingenuity. Bonded over electronics, they built "blue boxes" to hack AT&T's phone network after uncovering signaling tones in a dusty technical journal, making free global calls—including a prank to the Vatican posing as Henry Kissinger. This lesson in controlling vast infrastructure with simple devices was pivotal: "There would have been no Apple computer had there not been blue boxing," Jobs reflected. Necessity drove their first commercial venture; unable to afford a terminal for free time-sharing, they assembled the Apple I in garages, evolving it into printed circuit boards sold to the Byte Shop, the world's first computer store. Risking VW buses and calculators as collateral, they secured parts on credit, marking Apple's bootstrapped birth.

    The Apple II's 1977 debut at the West Coast Computer Faire, with groundbreaking color graphics, stole the show, drawing distributors and propelling the company public. Yet Jobs learned business not through formal training but by interrogating "why" behind practices, decrying "folklore" like vague costing. He advocated programming as a liberal art, teaching structured thought akin to law school. Wealth followed—$100 million by 25—but Jobs dismissed it: "I never did it for the money." A transformative 1979 visit to Xerox PARC revealed the graphical user interface, an "obvious" inevitability that Jobs seized, despite Xerox's failure to commercialize due to sales-obsessed "toner heads" eroding product genius.

    Internal strife defined Apple's evolution. Resistance from HP transplants stalled Macintosh development, prompting Jobs to prototype a $15 mouse in 90 days against dire predictions. The Lisa's $10,000 price mismatched Apple's ethos, leading to Jobs' ouster after clashing with CEO John Sculley amid 1985's recession. Sculley's survival instincts scapegoated Jobs, destroying Apple's values and stalling innovation, allowing Microsoft to catch up. Jobs lamented Apple's "glide slope to die," critiquing Microsoft's tasteless, pedestrian products despite their opportunistic rise via IBM's boost.

    Exiled, Jobs founded NeXT, pioneering object-oriented software that built applications 10x faster, infiltrating businesses as a competitive weapon. He foresaw the web's profound shift: computing as communication, not calculation, enabling direct sales and equalizing companies. The bicycle of the mind metaphor encapsulated his view—computers as humanity's ultimate tool, amplifying abilities like the condor's efficiency surpassed by cyclists. Jobs urged stealing ideas shamelessly, per Picasso, blending liberal arts with tech; his "hippie" teams infused products with transcendent spirit, making users "love" the Macintosh.

    Reflecting on team dynamics, Jobs likened great collaboration to a rock tumbler: friction among A-players polishes raw ideas into gems, sustaining intensity despite exhaustion. He built self-policing excellence, providing direct feedback on work, not egos, and recognized tech's 50-100x talent gaps. Desktop publishing's triumph via LaserWriter and Adobe partnership exemplified bold pivots, briefly making Apple the world's top printer firm. Yet Jobs' 1985 blunder announcing the "Macintosh Office" diluted focus, underscoring execution's perils.

    Ultimately, Jobs' narrative revealed a philosophy of nudging technology's vector early for societal good, driven by taste and exposure to humanity's best. His ouster's pain yielded clarity: innovation evaporates without visionary leadership. As NeXT eyed software revolutions, Jobs embodied the hippie-nerd fusion—seeking life's deeper inrush beyond routine, channeling it into tools that transmit shared feelings. This lost interview, unearthed from a garage, captures an incandescent passion at art-technology's crossroads, presaging the iPod, iPhone, and iPad eras.

    In essence, Jobs' story warns against complacency while inspiring relentless pursuit of excellence, where multidisciplinary passion crafts products that elevate the human spirit, ensuring technology's trajectory bends toward flourishing.