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    Steve Jobs - The Lost Interview (11 May 2012) [VO] [ST-FR] [Ultra HD 4K]

    Nov 10, 2025

    22513 symbols

    15 min read

    SUMMARY

    In a rediscovered 1995 interview, Steve Jobs recounts his early fascination with computers, founding Apple with Steve Wozniak, innovations like the Macintosh, departure due to conflicts with John Sculley, and visions for software and the web's transformative role.

    STATEMENTS

    • Steve Jobs first encountered a computer at age 10 or 11 through a time-sharing terminal at NASA Ames Research Center, sparking his lifelong passion.
    • At 12, Jobs cold-called Bill Hewlett of Hewlett-Packard, securing spare parts and a summer job that shaped his view of company culture.
    • Jobs attended Hewlett-Packard Palo Alto Research Labs meetings, where he first saw the HP 9100, the earliest desktop computer, igniting his love for programming.
    • Jobs met Steve Wozniak at age 14 or 15, bonding over electronics and starting collaborative projects.
    • Inspired by an Esquire article on Captain Crunch, Jobs and Wozniak built blue boxes to make free phone calls by mimicking AT&T signaling tones.
    • Their blue box allowed global calls, teaching them that small inventions could control vast infrastructures, a lesson pivotal to Apple's creation.
    • Necessity drove Jobs and Wozniak to build a terminal for free time-sharing access, evolving into the Apple I as a microprocessor extension.
    • They soldered Apple I boards by hand, taking 40 to 80 hours each, and helped friends assemble theirs, leading to the idea of printed circuit boards.
    • Jobs sold his Volkswagen bus and Wozniak his calculator to fund the first Apple I printed circuit boards, initially selling to friends.
    • Paul Terrell of the Byte Shop ordered 50 assembled Apple I units, prompting Jobs and Wozniak to secure parts on credit and launch their business.
    • Mike Markkula, a former Intel executive, joined as an equal partner, providing funding and expertise to package the Apple II for mass appeal.
    • The Apple II debuted at the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977, featuring advanced color graphics that stole the show and attracted distributors.
    • Jobs learned business by questioning "why" practices, criticizing folklore like standard costing for masking poor information systems.
    • Computers teach thinking like a liberal art, akin to law school, by mirroring thought processes beyond practical uses.
    • Jobs amassed wealth rapidly by age 25 but prioritized company, people, and products over money, never selling stock.
    • At Xerox PARC in 1979, Jobs saw the graphical user interface, recognizing its inevitability for all future computers despite flaws.
    • Xerox failed due to "toner heads" in leadership prioritizing sales over product innovation, rotting the company's creative core.
    • IBM's entry scared Apple, but their open architecture allowed partners to improve it, turning a poor product into a success.
    • Apple's HP-recruited engineers resisted GUI ideas, leading Jobs to outsource a cheap, reliable mouse design in 90 days.
    • Process institutionalization confuses companies, prioritizing management over content, as seen in IBM's downfall and Apple's Lisa misstep.
    • The Macintosh project saved Apple by reinventing manufacturing, distribution, and marketing for an affordable $1,000 computer.
    • Sculley's belief that ideas are 90% of work ignored craftsmanship, trade-offs, and evolution in turning concepts into products.
    • Jobs's metaphor of a rock tumbler illustrates how passionate teams polish ideas through friction and collaboration.
    • Success stems from assembling A-players who self-select and propagate excellence, unlike settling for average performers.
    • Direct feedback on poor work focuses on the output, not the person, to realign talented individuals toward team goals.
    • Apple pioneered desktop publishing by partnering with Adobe and using the first Canon laser printer engine.
    • Jobs's 1985 announcement blundered by broadening beyond desktop publishing to the Macintosh Office concept.
    • Conflicts with Sculley arose from recession leadership vacuum, where Sculley scapegoated Jobs to survive board pressure.
    • Apple's 1995 state was dying due to stagnation, eroding its 10-year lead as Microsoft caught up through opportunism.
    • Microsoft succeeded via IBM's boost and relentless improvement but lacks taste, producing pedestrian products without cultural insight.
    • NeXT commercialized object-oriented technology from Xerox, enabling 10x faster, better software development.
    • The web fulfills computers as communication tools, democratizing commerce and innovation beyond Microsoft's control.

    IDEAS

    • Encountering a computer as a child demystifies its power, turning abstract movie icons into tangible tools for execution.
    • Cold-calling industry leaders at a young age reveals accessibility in innovation, fostering mentorship and opportunity.
    • Blue boxing demonstrates how youthful ingenuity can hack global systems, empowering individuals over giants.
    • Building devices from scavenged parts underscores self-reliance, evolving hobbies into entrepreneurial ventures.
    • Printed circuit boards transform labor-intensive assembly into scalable production, enabling wider adoption.
    • Assembling on credit highlights raw determination over formal business acumen in early startups.
    • Packaging hardware for non-hobbyists expands markets from enthusiasts to everyday users.
    • Questioning business "folklore" exposes inefficiencies, allowing rapid learning through critical inquiry.
    • Programming as a liberal art reshapes cognition, mirroring thoughts more profoundly than traditional disciplines.
    • Wealth accumulation feels secondary when driven by creation, not finance, preserving intrinsic motivation.
    • Graphical interfaces, though flawed prototypes, predict inevitable shifts in human-computer interaction.
    • Corporate monopolies erode innovation by elevating sales over product genius, leading to internal decay.
    • External partnerships can salvage flawed launches, as ecosystems build on weak foundations.
    • Outsourcing innovative components bypasses internal resistance, accelerating breakthroughs.
    • Institutionalizing success processes often kills the creative content that birthed them.
    • Small teams on a "mission from God" reinvent industries through total overhauls, not incremental changes.
    • Ideas evolve via craftsmanship, demanding constant trade-offs amid physical and engineering constraints.
    • Team friction, like rocks in a tumbler, polishes raw talent into refined excellence.
    • Dynamic ranges in tech far exceed life's norms, rewarding pursuit of elite performers exponentially.
    • Direct, work-focused critique sustains high-caliber groups by prioritizing output over egos.
    • Killer apps emerge from strategic alliances, like software-printer integrations unlocking new paradigms.
    • Leadership vacuums in crises amplify scapegoating, derailing visionary paths.
    • Stagnation squanders leads, as competitors erode differentiation through persistence.
    • Opportunism plus relentless iteration turns boosts into dominance, even from mediocre starts.
    • Object-oriented tech revolutionizes development, amplifying software's societal infiltration.
    • The web democratizes scale, making tiny entities rival titans in reach and innovation.
    • Tools like bicycles amplify human potential, positioning computers as history's pinnacle invention.
    • Taste guides direction, stealing from arts to infuse tech with humanistic depth.
    • Hippie ethos seeks life's unseen essence, channeling it into products that resonate emotionally.
    • Computers as media transmit unspoken feelings, drawing diverse talents beyond pure tech.

    INSIGHTS

    • Early hands-on encounters with technology instill a profound sense of agency, demystifying power structures.
    • Youthful audacity in reaching out builds networks that shape lifelong professional philosophies.
    • Hacking infrastructures teaches that innovation lies in leveraging hidden system flaws creatively.
    • Self-taught assembly skills bridge hobbyism and commerce, democratizing access to creation.
    • Scalability through design efficiencies turns personal projects into communal revolutions.
    • Bootstrapping via personal sacrifices and credit risks embodies startup resilience.
    • Visionary packaging targets untapped masses, multiplying impact beyond niche audiences.
    • Persistent "why" questioning dismantles outdated practices, accelerating adaptive learning.
    • Coding cultivates logical yet creative thinking, elevating it to essential humanistic education.
    • Intrinsic product passion sustains motivation, rendering financial gains peripheral.
    • Prototype glimpses forecast paradigm shifts, demanding immediate strategic pivots.
    • Monopoly complacency fosters bureaucratic rot, sidelining creators for marketers.
    • Collaborative ecosystems transform initial weaknesses into enduring strengths.
    • Bypassing internal inertia via external expertise hastens disruptive implementations.
    • Overemphasizing processes erodes the innovative essence that fuels growth.
    • Radical reinvention by elite squads preserves company vitality amid decline.
    • Product evolution requires navigating endless compromises, blending art and engineering.
    • Collaborative abrasion refines collective genius, yielding superior outcomes.
    • Elite talent concentrations create self-reinforcing excellence cycles in high-stakes fields.
    • Output-centric feedback preserves trust while enforcing standards in virtuoso teams.
    • Synergistic tech integrations spawn industries, as hardware-software unions redefine workflows.
    • Crisis survival instincts can fracture alliances, prioritizing self over shared futures.
    • Innovation halts invite erosion, underscoring continuous advancement's necessity.
    • Calculated opportunism maximizes windfalls, turning alliances into empires.
    • Modular paradigms like objects streamline complexity, empowering broader applications.
    • Communication over computation redefines tech's societal role, fostering connectivity.
    • Augmentative tools exponentially enhance human capabilities, marking computational peaks.
    • Aesthetic sensibility curates progress, borrowing cultural richness for technological elevation.
    • Transcendent pursuits infuse creations with soul, evoking user loyalty beyond utility.
    • Multidisciplinary influxes enrich tech, channeling broader human experiences into digital forms.

    QUOTES

    • "It was an incredibly thrilling experience um so I became very um captivated by by a computer."
    • "We could build something ourselves that could control billions of dollars worth of infrastructure in the world."
    • "I don't think there would have ever been an Apple computer had there not been blue boxing."
    • "Everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer should learn a computer language because it teaches you how to think."
    • "I view computer science as a liberal art it should be something that everybody learn."
    • "The most important thing was the company the people the products we were making what we were going to enable people to do with these products."
    • "Within you know 10 minutes it was obvious to me that all computers would work like this someday."
    • "Xerox could have owned the entire computer industry today um could have been you know a company 10 times its size."
    • "It's not process it's content."
    • "The Macintosh that's shipping today is like you know 25% different than the day I left."
    • "Microsoft's just you know it's McDonald's."
    • "Software is becoming an incredible force in this world um to provide new goods and services to people."
    • "The web is going to be the defining technology the defining social uh um the defining social moment for computer."
    • "The personal computer was the bicycle of the mind."
    • "Good artists copy great artists steal."
    • "There was something really wonderful there so um I I don't think that most of the really best people that I've worked with have worked with computers for the sake of working with computers."
    • "Computers were invented they did come along and all these people did get interested in in school or before school and and and and said hey this is the medium that I think I can say something in."

    HABITS

    • Cold-calling experts like Bill Hewlett to request parts and opportunities.
    • Attending weekly research lab meetings to explore emerging technologies.
    • Collaborating intensely on electronics projects with like-minded peers.
    • Scavenging and hand-assembling components to build custom devices.
    • Questioning established business practices to uncover underlying reasons.
    • Hiring and surrounding oneself with top-tier "A-player" talent exclusively.
    • Providing direct, specific feedback on work quality to maintain excellence.
    • Visiting factories worldwide to study and innovate manufacturing processes.
    • Drawing inspiration from diverse fields like arts and history for product design.
    • Prioritizing product content and craftsmanship over rigid management processes.
    • Stealing and integrating great ideas from other domains shamelessly.
    • Focusing on long-term company vision rather than short-term financial gains.
    • Building small, passionate teams for high-intensity, mission-driven projects.

    FACTS

    • The HP 9100 was the first self-contained desktop computer, about suitcase-sized with a CRT display.
    • Blue boxes mimicked AT&T tones in the voice band, allowing control of the international phone network.
    • Jobs and Wozniak's blue box was all-digital, enabling worldwide calls via satellites and trunks.
    • The Byte Shop was the world's first computer store, later becoming an adult bookstore.
    • Apple II's color graphics were the most advanced on personal computers in 1977.
    • Xerox PARC demonstrated GUI, object-oriented programming, and networked Altos in 1979.
    • A reliable mouse was designed and built for $15 in 90 days, countering estimates of $300 and five years.
    • Macintosh adopted the 68,000 microprocessor at one-fifth Lisa's price due to higher volume.
    • Apple became the world's largest printer company by revenue when Jobs left in 1985.
    • NeXT specialized in object-oriented software, becoming the market's largest supplier with 300 employees.
    • The web was poised to shift 15% of U.S. catalog and TV sales, totaling tens of billions in value.
    • Humans on bicycles outperform condors in locomotion efficiency per kilocalorie-kilometer.
    • Macintosh maintained only 25% differentiation from its 1985 version by 1995 despite billion-dollar R&D.

    REFERENCES

    • Triumph of the Nerds TV series.
    • Esquire magazine article on Captain Crunch.
    • AT&T Technical Journal on phone signaling tones.
    • HP 9100 desktop computer.
    • Stanford Linear Accelerator Center technical library.
    • Apple I and Apple II computers.
    • West Coast Computer Faire.
    • Xerox PARC demonstrations (GUI, object-oriented programming, networked Altos).
    • Lisa computer project.
    • Macintosh project and automated factory.
    • Canon laser printer engine.
    • Adobe software partnership (19.9% stake).
    • LaserWriter printer.
    • PepsiCo as John Sculley's prior company.
    • NeXT software and object-oriented technology.
    • World Wide Web and internet.
    • Scientific American article on locomotion efficiency.
    • Picasso's saying on artists copying and stealing.
    • Bill Atkinson quote on feedback.
    • MCI's Friends and Family billing software.

    HOW TO APPLY

    • Start with hands-on experimentation using available resources like time-sharing terminals to build foundational skills.
    • Reach out directly to industry leaders via phone to seek advice, parts, or opportunities without hesitation.
    • Form partnerships with complementary experts, like electronics whizzes, to accelerate project development.
    • Prototype devices from scavenged parts to test ideas, iterating based on real-world functionality.
    • Design scalable components, such as printed circuit boards, to reduce assembly time and enable sales.
    • Secure parts on credit from suppliers by outlining clear production plans and timelines.
    • Package products for broader accessibility, adding cases and peripherals to appeal to non-experts.
    • Question every business practice rigorously, digging into "why" to eliminate inefficiencies.
    • Visit research centers or competitors to absorb cutting-edge ideas and adapt them swiftly.
    • Assemble small, elite teams focused on content over process for breakthrough innovations.
    • Outsource resistant elements, like hardware design, to external specialists for rapid progress.
    • Provide precise, work-focused feedback to talented individuals, emphasizing team goals.
    • Integrate complementary technologies, such as printers and software, to create ecosystem synergies.
    • Reinvent operations holistically, from manufacturing to marketing, during company pivots.
    • Nudge trajectories early in emerging fields like the web to maximize long-term impact.
    • Infuse diverse artistic influences into technical work to enhance product soul and appeal.

    ONE-SENTENCE TAKEAWAY

    Steve Jobs's journey reveals that passionate innovation at technology's intersection with humanity drives profound societal amplification.

    RECOMMENDATIONS

    • Learn programming early to cultivate structured thinking as a core life skill.
    • Surround yourself exclusively with top performers to foster self-reinforcing excellence.
    • Question industry norms relentlessly to innovate beyond outdated folklore.
    • Expose yourself to Xerox-like prototypes to foresee and seize paradigm shifts.
    • Prioritize product craftsmanship over management processes for sustained creativity.
    • Build small, mission-driven teams that embrace friction for polished outcomes.
    • Give direct feedback on work quality to keep elite contributors aligned.
    • Steal boldly from arts and humanities to imbue tech with cultural depth.
    • Partner strategically with software firms to unlock hardware's full potential.
    • Focus announcements on singular killer apps rather than broad visions.
    • Commercialize overlooked ideas like object-oriented tech for efficiency gains.
    • Embrace the web as a democratizing force for communication and commerce.
    • View computers as mind-bicycles, amplifying innate human abilities exponentially.
    • Channel hippie-like curiosity into products that transmit deeper human feelings.
    • Nudge tech vectors early through tasteful, humanistic direction-setting.

    MEMO

    In 1995, as Silicon Valley buzzed with the personal computing revolution, journalist Robert X. Cringely unearthed a long-lost interview with Steve Jobs, conducted a decade earlier amid Apple's turbulent ascent. Jobs, then steering NeXT after a bitter exit from the company he co-founded, reflected on his improbable path from a 12-year-old tinkering in a garage to a visionary reshaping global technology. His charisma shone through, blending candor with foresight, as he dissected the alchemy of innovation that birthed the Apple I, Apple II, and Macintosh.

    Jobs's origin story began with a childhood epiphany at NASA Ames, where a teletype terminal introduced him to computing's magic. "It was an incredibly thrilling experience," he recalled, captivated by how a machine could execute his coded ideas. This spark led to a bold cold-call to Hewlett-Packard's Bill Hewlett, landing parts and a job that imprinted ideals of employee-centric companies. By his teens, Jobs bonded with Steve Wozniak over electronics, their blue-box phone hacks teaching a pivotal lesson: two kids could command billions in infrastructure. "We could build something ourselves that could control billions of dollars worth of infrastructure," Jobs said, a realization that directly fueled Apple's genesis.

    Necessity birthed the Apple I, an extension of a homemade terminal for free computing access. Hand-assembling boards in garages evolved into selling printed circuits to the Byte Shop, the world's first computer store. With Mike Markkula's investment and expertise, they packaged the Apple II for the masses, unveiling color graphics at the 1977 West Coast Computer Faire that captivated crowds. Yet success amplified challenges; Jobs decried business "folklore," like vague costing, urging deep inquiry. He viewed programming as a liberal art, essential for honing thought, much like law school trains reasoning.

    A transformative 1979 visit to Xerox PARC blinded Jobs to networking and objects but ignited obsession with the graphical user interface. "Within 10 minutes it was obvious that all computers would work like this someday," he declared. Xerox's failure, he argued, stemmed from "toner heads"—sales-driven leaders eroding product genius in their monopoly. IBM's PC entry terrified Apple, but its open model enlisted allies to refine mediocrity. Internally, HP transplants resisted Jobs's GUI vision, prompting him to outsource a $15 mouse in 90 days. He warned against process over content, a trap that birthed the mismatched Lisa and his ousting by John Sculley.

    The Macintosh salvaged Apple, a "mission from God" by a core team reinventing everything from automated factories to marketing for a $2,500 powerhouse. Jobs likened the process to a rock tumbler: talented individuals' friction polishes ideas into gems. Assembling A-players created self-policing excellence, with dynamic ranges in tech dwarfing life's norms—50-to-1 or more. Direct feedback kept them sharp, focusing on work, not egos. Desktop publishing exploded via LaserWriter and Adobe ties, making Apple the top printer firm briefly. But Sculley's title-claiming amid recession scapegoated Jobs, destroying Apple's values and stalling innovation.

    By 1995, Jobs lamented Apple's "glide slope to die," its 10-year lead squandered as Microsoft opportunistically dominated via IBM's boost—yet without taste, producing "McDonald's" fare. NeXT, his haven, perfected Xerox's object tech for 10x faster software, infiltrating business as a competitive weapon. Peering ahead, Jobs hailed the web as computing's social pivot: a communication conduit democratizing sales, where minnows rival whales.

    Underlying Jobs's drive was a humanistic core. A Scientific American piece on bicycles trouncing condors in efficiency framed computers as the "bicycle of the mind," history's ultimate tool. Taste, he insisted, charts direction—stealing from Picasso, poets, and zoologists to infuse Mac with spirit. A self-proclaimed hippie, Jobs sought life's unseen essence, channeling it into products users "love." Computers, he believed, best transmit unspoken feelings, drawing diverse souls who might otherwise pursue other arts. In this lost interview, Jobs not only chronicled triumphs but urged nudging tech's vector toward enlightenment, a legacy enduring beyond his time.